Dakota Johnson's Kitchen, Tik Tok, & The Complicated Mechanics of Skeleton Costumes: An Evening with Phoebe Bridgers, Marshall Vore & Harrison Whitford

An Interview by Dani Ducharme, Kristen Cawog, Joy Freeman, Nicholas Gemma, Jack Barnes, Ashley Onnembo & Mollie Sullivan

When given the chance, what questions would you ask your favorite artist? Someone whose music has been the soundtrack to your 2 AM tears. Someone who lives rent-free on your Twitter feed. Someone who is arguably the unofficial Empress of Emerson College. It's tricky, especially when you never thought in a million years you'd get the opportunity as a small college music publication.

This past month was a whirlwind of solidifying dates and perfecting our research, all while in disbelief. Last Tuesday night, 7 of our staff members nervously slipped on their Halloween costumes, logged into Zoom, and tried to calm down as we prepared for the biggest interview we’ve done to date: Miss Phoebe Bridgers.

Mollie Sullivan: Alright guys, thanks for being here! Joining us tonight, we have Harrison Whitford, Marshall Vore, and of course, Phoebe Bridgers. The one and only. Thank you so much for being here. I am going to pass it over to Joy for the first question!

Joy Freeman: We've noticed a gothic motif in your songwriting, and you've got the spooky sonic instrumental thing going on, which I talked about in my review of Punisher up on our blog. The themes that you go through are so heavy; it's grief, it's existentialism, it's religion. Then you use your baritone guitar, which is also kind of heavy and dark. So the question is for all three of you, what Halloween or gothic media did you consume as kids that informed your songwriting and your music?

Phoebe Bridgers: I really loved Lemony Snicket, if any of y'all read Lemony Snicket also like Harry Potter and stuff, but I was definitely more of a Lemony Snicket guy. I just really really like magic. I love Halloween, but all pretty light. I didn't like horror movies. My best friend in high school was goth, but I kind of wasn't goth. I was more indie, you know, like Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeros and combat boots and colored hair, unfortunately. Then I think when I came into adulthood, I was like, I'm gonna just be goth because I like that stuff.

Marshall Vore: I went to school in rural Idaho so it wasn't a good substitute for a football to like wear eyeliner. I got into it, and honestly, this is probably kind of a boring answer, but “Nightmare Before Christmas” was the first big thing I saw when I was really young and I was like woah. Then, not Edward Sharpe but definitely “Edward Scissorhands” was one for me. It was more just stuff that I thought was cool but I was really into emo bands, I had dyed black hair, eyeliner, and a screamo band. It wasn't very good, don't look it up, please! I was pretty into it. I don’t feel like I really rep that stuff on purpose too hard now. I look pretty regular in the terms of the way I dress

Phoebe: You wear chokers and big pants and shit!

Marshall: No I don't.

Phoebe: Yes you do! I actually stole a choker! Also, you left your ICP shirt behind the other day. Did you hear that? And now we're going to do like a sisterhood of the Insane Clown Posse's t-shirt where we all share it, like each month.

Marshall: I think that’s the perfect fate for that shirt. Harry, weren’t you were a Sex Pistols guy?

Harrison Whitford: Yeah I was. I didn't really care about music when I was a kid, like a little kid. I was really into drawing and more specifically, anime. I consumed a ton of anime and I would try and draw in that style. Then for whatever reason, maybe through my brother, who in the 80s, you know, did the mohawk thing and was full-blown punk. He showed me the Sex Pistols, The Casualties, and The Dead Kennedys. I just all of a sudden loved music but it was that music. But I didn't stick to that for very long, probably only from 10 to 12.

But Marshall, it's funny that you said the Tim Burton movies because I rewatched those recently, as well as “Beetlejuice.” You know when you revisit something that you haven't taken a look at since you were a kid and you're like, I didn't even realize how much of an impression this left on me. I love those movies so much. I still do. I think they're actually better now, which you can’t say for a lot of things. But then I started playing guitar and jumped into other kinds of music.

Dani Ducharme: Well, it’s interesting because one of my questions was actually straight-up asking if you ever have an emo phase, which we learned Marshall did. My question now, though, is we noticed you’ve been crossing paths a lot recently with Hayley Williams and we really enjoyed your quarantine interview. In that interview, you mentioned that you watched her perform during Paramore’s height. How did your experience with the alt community growing up inform where you place yourself now, your music, and all that good stuff?

Phoebe: I don't think I was actually super alt as a kid. I didn't know how to but I was surrounded by alt people. I wanted to be. But I wasn’t. I listened to a lot of classic rock as a teenager and got into Bright Eyes and stuff but I really only listened to pop-punk and Paramore the year I graduated high school. So it came pretty late for me. Everybody was wearing black eyeliner in 2005 but I found it in 2013. I felt like I went really hard into it but alone. Also, when Harry met me, we were basically like a country band. I feel like I'm going through my alt renaissance right now.

Marshall: I was listening to Mayday Parade yesterday, for anybody who knows about that.

Phoebe: I went to my first emo night this year. Or the end of last year?

Ashley Onnembo: Harrison and Marshall, this question is for you! You both contributed amazing sound and input to Phoebe’s recent record releases. How long have y’all known each other, and what is it really like working with Phoebe?

Harrison: (to Phoebe) How many years ago did I meet you? Seven years maybe?

Phoebe: Yeah!

Harrison: I would say, I don't know if you feel this way but I was talking about this with somebody recently but my rapport with you feels pretty much the same as it did when we first met. It feels the same way with Marshall. I could say that constitutes the majority of my long term friendships is just a naturalness. As for working together, I think it's kind of the same thing where it's all just pretty natural. With Phoebe songs, I think my favorite part of the work is that it's always in a space where I'm thinking about what I can do inside of the song. That always gets you further away from your instrument in a healthy way, where you’re just thinking how can I support this song? It helps too, and I'm sure Marshall can relate to this, when you play in scenarios where maybe the song is not very good, the music isn’t very good and you’re just digging a hole to try and make it good. Whereas, you have the scenario with Phoebe where it's more about which angle can I take because there are so many angles to take musically. It's not even something I think about very much because it feels pretty easy. It's more of an inspired kind of working than it is like how are we gonna make this cool because it's cool and compelling, to begin with! The other thing I think too that is kind of nice when you play with people for a long time is that you build a natural pulse musically. You can anticipate things that they’ll do, I mean, I definitely feel that with Phoebe and Marshall. Even if Marshall and I, and we probably haven't done this in a while, but if we’re just jamming or something, I can kind of anticipate rhythmically what he might do.

Phoebe: This might not seem obvious but when I'm about to get quiet, I feel like you guys can tell.

Marshall: Oh ya, for sure!

Phoebe: Especially on songs like ‘Motion Sickness’ or something, when there's like a loud section, I feel like you guys know when I'm in the mood to make it a quiet section instead. I feel like you guys know what I’m thinking and it's really fun.

Marshall: I've also known Harry for six years and same with phoebe. I met them the same day. And Phoebe fucking hated me the first time we met and I didn’t know.

Phoebe: (laughing) Yeah well I was like “Hey nice to meet you” and you were just like “Hey.”

Marshall: People assume that I couldn't possibly be a shy person but I actually am! I feel like that oftentimes comes off as people thinking that I'm like a dick or arrogant or something.

To answer the question, working with Phoebe, it feels like what I wanted my band in high school and my band in my early adult life to be like. It doesn't feel at all like something that is like this big. It doesn't feel like a professional operation, just a bunch of idiots in a room being like, “Oh, you know what would be cool, is like, what if we did this.” I also think it's important to mention that when we made the first album, Stranger in the Alps, we had no idea at all, nor any plan on what it would sound like. And if we did, I think we thought it was gonna sound a little bit more like Gillian Welch or something. It came out with a pronounced identity in terms of what it sounds like. I don't think we've ever had a conversation about what we'll end up doing moving forward. Like you guys were saying, we sort of have this like, mind-reading thing, where I think we all share the same music tastes, and we've been inspired by a lot of the same things or at least things that are adjacent to each other. So we end up aiming at the same effect, whether that's a specific section in a song or the general view of the song. Usually, when somebody has an idea, it's like, yeah, that's exactly the right thing to do. I don't think there are very many times when it's like, no, this isn't working. That happens a lot more with lyrics but not with actually playing our music.

Phoebe: I don't know dude, it was hard to make Stranger in the Alps. They were trying to make me put certain songs on it and I was like no. It ended basically in tears. Whereas Punisher was super, super easy to make. I think we worked hard for our rapport but I also think the lyrics were easier on Punisher. I was just less freaked out but I think all of us were kind of less freaked out where we were like we have a place in the world almost and it's our job.

Harrison: It's fun. It's like really fun. That's what I mean, there hasn’t ever been any pressure about making some big statement or something, we’ve mostly been trying to impress ourselves and I think the way we do that is the same for all of us. We end up aiming for the same goalposts and that is not typical in other musical situations for sure. There's usually some kind of, like an artistic compromise that's happening between people and it would be really easy for our music to be a very singular vision. At the end of the day, you [Phoebe] are the person with a singular vision but we almost never have any conversations where you're like, you know, this song is going in the wrong direction. It's like, it's all pretty effortless.

Jack Barnes: Phoebe, you're very engaged with your listeners online, which has led to some to “meme” your songs on Tik Tok. What do you take from that and what does it do for your work or anything going forward?

Phoebe: Well, Tik Tok is the first thing to make me feel old. I feel like I don't know how to use it. I love talking to people on Twitter and Instagram and stuff, but Tik Tok I just look at. I love that, without me trying, my music has a place there. Especially with queer Tik Tok, that just makes me happy. But I do kind of feel like an old man, sitting back and being like “crazy kids making dance videos!” They’re hilarious. I like the one that I tweeted the other day, the guy who reads the potato recipe to the tune of ‘Kyoto.’ That's one of my favorites. But I love Tik Tok. Big fan.

Dani: Do you know the dance to motion sickness that people are doing?

Phoebe: I was like gonna do it but every day I don’t seem to have the energy. I don't want to embarrass myself. I know the first part, is it someone giving head to somebody else?

Dani: Yeah, that's the only part I know, the rest of it just a lot of hand gestures. It’s way too hard!

Phoebe: There's like the ass thing too, where you hike up your leg?

Dani: I think so!

Phoebe: Yeah, I don't really know it!

Kristen Cawog: I think my favorite Tik Tok trend with one of your songs is the “whatever she wants” lyric and people were just showing pictures of Dakota Johnson. After she came out as bi, people were like whatever Dakota wants!

Phoebe: Also yes, she’s hot.

Marshall: We love Dakota Johnson’s kitchen in this house.

Kristen: It’s amazing.

Dani: The whole green color scheme? Yes.

Nicholas Gemma: Moving on, we've been able to see some more live performances as of late with the NPR Tiny Desk performance, Red Rocks, and Save Our Stages! How has it been performing to empty venues and what has been your favorite post-apocalyptic performance so far?

Phoebe: Red Rocks was the most fun because we got to be on a bus. I thought it was going to be depressing because the Instagram lives were kind of depressing to me because I was totally by myself in the height of quarantine. But being with a band, that’s a big part of it. We hadn't seen each other in a long time so it was fun to connect, all get (COVID) tests, and hug. That was what was so great about Red Rocks. It’s been fucking surreal. I think it was only happening to our band that we are lucky enough to be able to play live shows again. Marshall fell asleep, even though we were only at the venue for like 3 hours or something. But I feel like we’ve been keeping it really real.

Marshall: I don't know what it is about driving but this happens to me when I have to drive for more than like 30 minutes. It doesn't matter how much sleep I’ve had or not, there's something like hypnotic where I just go, well I'm gonna fall asleep now. And that's why it's dangerous for me to drive for two hours! At shows and sound checks, I always fall asleep in my hi-hat. Every time. I've never found a couch. I don't know what it is, it feels like there’s something wrong with me but it doesn't need to be that big of a problem. Just jostle me a little bit and be like buddy!

Harrison: I have tons of photos of you, just asleep at the hi-hat and it’s like mid sound check. But, honestly, these “live” shows feel like soundchecks. And then it's over. But there's usually a lot of good banter and catching up. It just doesn't feel like the Red Rock thing felt like a show.

Phoebe: Totally.

Harrison: It was a really surreal show. Like, the Troubadour show and other places felt like we showed up, sound checked for 3 hours, and then went home.

Kristen: All of you guys are so amazingly talented and you’re constantly working on so many different projects, whether that’s together or individually. How do you balance it all?

Marshall: Darin (their manager). I'm being serious.

Phoebe: I don't do normal tasks. I don't function like a normal adult. So it's Darin that functions as the other part of my brain that I don’t have.

Marshall: Darin started managing me as well. I'm a songwriter, and he is basically the biggest reason for that because it allows me to be able to do things and not have it conflict with Phoebe stuff. I don't know if this happens on your end, Harry or Phoebe, but for me, it’s almost always like, ok it's 7 pm, and tomorrow you’re doing this thing and I'm like oh. If I was managing my own schedule, it just would not work.

Phoebe: Marshall called and invited me to a 4th of July party on June 1st. I was like cool that you’re getting so ahead. Turns out, he called everyone and invited them to his house on June 4th.

When I plan something, Darin has to then come and clean up the four things I fucked up in the meantime.

Mollie: (laughs) That’s awesome. Guys, I need to know. If you had to assign a Phoebe Bridgers song to 2020, what would it be? A song or a lyric!

Harrison: Probably ‘I Know The End.’

Marshall: Oh man. Now I can’t think of one single Phoebe song or lyric.

Phoebe: I can’t think of anything I’ve ever said.

Harrison: I mean you have a quarantine lyric on ‘Stranger in the Alps.’

Phoebe: Oh right! I also have a mask lyric by accident on ‘Halloween.’

Mollie: Well, that concludes our Q & A! Thank you all so much, it was so fun to have everyone together for our little pretend Halloween party!

Listen to Phoebe Bridgers here: